In the first part of his interview with AVA Diplomatic, the representative of the Kurdistan Region in Iran not only explained the process of his fights against the Baath regime of Iraq, but he also cleared the air about the formation of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in Iraq and its role in 8 years of war between Iran and Iraq which you may find below.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Nazim Omar Dabbagh,

Representative of the Kurdistan Region in Iran

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

 

How and why was the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan established?

After the 1975 Algiers Agreement and the huge failure caused for the Kurdish uprising, the order was faced with a malfunction and as a result, the Baath regime boosted pressures and cruelties against the people of Kurdistan. Alongside with the implementation of the agreement, a group of political leaders and officials led by Jalal Talabani established a new organization in Syria on June 1, 1975 named “the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan” and one year after that on June 1, 1976, the armed uprising against the Baath regime initiated. The directing board of the fledgling organization consisted of Mam Jalal, Dr. Kamal Fouad, Dr. Fuad Masum, Nawshirwan Mustafa, Abdul Razaq Feili and Adel Murad, and their objective was to give a new life to the rise and defense of the Kurdish people independently relying solely on the help and support of the Kurds.

Why was this union formed basically?

The truth is they were after continuing the battle and defending the Kurdish people and standing up against the fascist Baath regime of Iraq.

Did power fall into the hands of Saddam Husain after the Baath coup in Iraq?

In my opinion, although Saddam Hussein succeeded the then President, Ahmed Hassan el-Bakr since the very beginning, he was powerful and a man of vast potentials in politics.

When did you join the Union?

I made links with the Patriotic Union since it was first established. My connection with the freedom movement of the Kurdish people, however, started in September, 1961 as a proponent and a member of the Democratic Party of Kurdistan. Later on in 1964 when the talks began with Abdul Salam Arif under the Barzani leadership and after the coup that targeted Abd al-Karim Qasim, the party divided into two thought wings which included the pro-Barzanis and the proponents of the political office. We were part of the students union who supported the political office and belonged to Jalal Talabani’s side and that went on up to when the Patriotic Union was established. Soon as the September Uprising began in March, 1974, I joined them and the Peshmerga forces. After that, I went to Iran and found asylum at a refugee camp.

What were you doing back then?

After finishing high school in 1966, I entered the teachers institute center and graduated in spring of 1970. In October, 1970, I became a teacher in the Barzan and Mirga-Sur regions, and since September, 1961, I was constantly active in student and party gatherings. In 1974, I joined the Peshmerga forces and later, taught in the Qulti and Rabt camps in Sardasht. I returned to Kurdistan in Iraq after the Algiers agreement.

Did you cooperate with the Marxist, Leninist Komalah Party of the Iraqi Kurdistan?

Not directly. Before the formation of Komalah in 1970, there was an elite group which we participated in. In the early days of 1970, we used to be raising our awareness by studying Mao Zedong, Marx and Lenin. We used to go to the Chinese embassy in Baghdad and when we introduced ourselves on behalf of Jalal Talabani, they lent us books and papers.

Had the Marxist mindset already left an impact on the armed activities of Kurds?

Mam Jalal had a Maoist thinking style, and ideologically, that was more compatible with the Kurdish status. The Maoism movement geared toward farmers, not labors. The Kurdish society was based on agriculture, too, not labor.

When did you first meet Mr. Talabani?

The first time goes back to the time after the coup of Abdul Salam Arif against Abd al-Karim Qasem in 1964, when Mam Jalal, as a commander of Peshmerga forces who resided close to Koy Sanjaq, took the road to the Faqih Khedr-Kanileh Cemetery and entered the city. We, as the youth and students, followed them. He was being accompanied by 25 Peshmerga soldiers; they entered Mahmoud Aqa Mosque which was located downtown, gave a speech and we listened. That was the first time I was seeing Jalal Talabani from that close an angle and the picture of that day is enclosed in the first chapter of Mam Jalal’s diary book.

Did you gear toward him that day?

In the early breaths of the September uprising in 1961, Mam Jalal had bases around the city of Koy Sanjaq in the Razan River and Haji Qal’e region under his command as a Peshmerga commander of Kurdistan. His name was repeated regularly among people and we, too, as the youth of Koy Sanjaq felt proud of it and were influenced by his thoughts; a path we have continued to follow up to now. Back then, we work in the party’s bureau.

Where were you when the Algiers agreement was signed?

As I said earlier, back then, I was a teacher and lived with part of my family in the camp of Rabt.

How did you become a member of the leading board of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in 1980?

Since April 8 to August 17, 1979, I was in jail by the official decree of Saddam Husain and when I was released, I received a letter from the party and Mam Jalal to attend extensive meetings of the Patriotic Union in the mountains which aimed at reinvigorating the organizations of the socialistic movement of Kurdistan there which Kak Rasoul Momand and others sought separation from and a majority of them left. Another crowd including Dr. Khaled Saeed, Ali Askari and Hussein Baba Sheikh Yazidi were martyred or dispersed by the temporary army during the Hakari tragedy where they were tagged along by some 600 Peshmerga soldiers.

On January 2, 1980, I arrived in Nawzang where the political and private offices of Mam Jalal were located. I had made up my mind not to return and to stay with the Peshmerga forces. The reason was that I had just been released from Saddam’s imprisonment and if I had been caught once again, our execution would have been categorical. Mam Jalal became very happy about my decision and welcomed it.

What happened after that?

In March 1980, the union session was held and I was elected as a member of the leading board of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, the Central Association and the Leading Council of the Socialistic Movement. Later on, from June, 1980 until the first congress in 1991 after the uprising in Sulaymaniyah, I was a member of the political office and in charge of the ministerial and financial sector. Then, I did not nominate for any leading position and in 1991, I was the administrative director of the political office and after that, served for three years as the deputy minister of education. After what happened on August 31, I sought asylum in the Netherlands and was later appointed representative of the Patriotic Union and Mam Jalal in the sector for organizing and the affairs related to the national Kurd congress in Brussels until when the Washington Agreement was inked between the Union and the Party, I took a path though Iran and returned to Kurdistan at Mam Jalal’s behest. Mam Jalal was in Tehran back then and wanted for me to be his special representative in Iran and so, I am officially in Iran since September 18, 1999.

You were active in Dahuk in the process of liberating Kurdistan in 1991. Tell us more about your mission.

This goes back to an agenda and operation set by the leadership of the union and the Kurdish front at that time.

Kurdistan had been categorized into four main parts; provincially, the governor general, Kak Nawshirwan Mustafa, governor of Erbil, Kak Kosrat Rasoul, governor of Sulaymaniyah, Kak Omar Abdullah, governor of Kirkuk, Fereydoun Abdulghader and me, as the governor of Dahuk. Of course, we were all union forces, but for each governorate, a committee was formed which included all Kurdish Front forces. We summoned all Peshmerga officials of each region and coordinated ourselves with the forces inside the cities and the Peshmerga forces all through the axis of Dahuk, Sulaymaniyah, Kirkuk and Erbil. As a Patriotic union force, I, too, moved to the governorate of Dahuk on March 10, 1991 and arrived in Aqrah on March 13, 1991. After the liberation on March 14, 1991, we entered the liberated city of Dahuk which was the fruit of the people’s uprising and the organization and the liberty flag was raised in the city.

Did the liberation of Dahuk come with bloodshed and conflicts?

The liberation definitely came at the cost of martyrdom and losses. The pro-regime forces who resisted were killed and the proportion of martyrs and the injured was small compared to the victory and liberating the city. Many Iraqi officers and soldiers gave up or were held captive who we later released, and that was what we prided on; not only didn’t we kill any captives, but we also freed them which was an addition to the public remission issued earlier.

The liberation of the Kurdistan Region coincided with Saddam Hussein’s assault against Kuwait.

The liberation of Kurdistan happened after the attacks of the Allies against Kuwait and expelling the Iraqi Army from the country. I would like to make a reference to historical moment. In July, 1990, I was in Paris with Mam Jalal and attended most of his meetings with French officials such as Bernard Kushner, Ms. Mitterrand and other FM figures. There were talks about the state of Iraq and the region and Mam Jalal said, “In my opinion, after the war comes to a halt, Saddam Hussein has plans to launch assaults against the Gulf States, including Kuwait,” and in response, the French officials at the Foreign Ministry stated, “This is simply a dream, Mam Jalal. How will Saddam ever do this?” Mam Jalal replied, “It is logically impossible, I agree. But considering our familiarity and information we have with and of Saddam’s thinking style, he will do it!”

Well, on August 2, 1990, Saddam attacked Kuwait and the Guardian and Lomond wrote the first to anticipate this was Jalal Talabani. However, I think during a speech in London on July 11, 1990, Mam Jalal had offered his prediction, too. After the invasion of Kuwait, the French FM officials sent a message to Mam Jalal through the Union’s representative in Paris, who was then Ahmad Bamerni. I went there and they asked if Mam Jalal knew what would take place after the invasion of Kuwait. On August 5, 1990, I returned to Syria through Damascus and met Mam Jalal to deliver to message. He said to me, “You should’ve told them they can wait for me to have another dream; maybe then I would tell!” Mam Jalal’s prediction, of course, was that the invasion of Kuwait would not be tolerated for long, as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were redlines and the Iraqi Army would be sent out and taken action against. A letter was sent to the political bureau and Kak Nawshirwan from me saying, “At the time of assaulting and liberating Kuwait, the Iraqi Army would face a great defeat. Therefore it is of the essence that the Kurdish front be alarmed, be prepared to rise and deploy armed troops inside cities and Peshmerga fighters around them to be at the ready for whatever that could possible come their way.” After Mam Jalal’s letter was delivered, the political bureau convened a session under Kak Nawshirwan and plans for forming armed groups and Peshmerga forces along with setting agendas in coordination with the Kurdish front to rise and liberate Kurdistan were prepared in which all parties of the Union, socialists, democrats, communists, etc. would take part.

Based on what reasoning did Saddam Hussein attack Kuwait?

Saddam Hussein was after taking reprisals. Iraqis claim Kuwait had once been part of Iraq and was then separated; they were not happy with Kuwait’s cooperation with Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, either.

What was the operational plans of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan to control the circumstances after Saddam Hussein was weakened?

Mam Jalal believed we had to prepare ourselves to launch the public uprising through the Kurdish front and liberate the regions of Kurdistan when the Allies attack and defeat the Iraqi Army. According to the response to his letter, forces and officials divided into the four governorates of Kirkuk, Erbil, Sulaymaniyah and Dahuk. The union forces that had been in Iran were called on and given the mission objectives.

Did you have military camps or garrisons in Iran?

No, we did not.

But you just said some of these forces came from Iran.

I was referring to the camps of people in Iran which included refugees from villages or families of the Peshmerga forces who had been forced into displacement, like my own family that lived in Mahabad. We took these people close to borders and dispatched them at our office which was located on the Iraqi soil. But all of the PDK forces were in Iran. It should be mentioned, of course, that Iran made substantial logistic, arm and health contributions to the Kurdish people.

Did Iran provide the Peshmerga forces with weaponry?

Iran helped the Kurds in every way. Iran provided whatever the Kurds asked for. It was not like Kurds had bases in the Iraqi Kurdistan, but the forces came to Iran to rest and recover. All of our garrisons were inside Iraq and forces were allowed to come to Iran only when dismissed temporarily or having families in the country. They could also travel to Iran to cure themselves if they had been injured or sick. Even once I was injured in 1980, came to Iran for treatment and stayed at Pars Hotel on Nejatollahi St. in Tehran. Back then, the Islamic Revolution had just come to fruition and ideological disagreements were intense. At that time, each school of thought had some voice it on the street and another would respond to it, and whoever could reason more strongly would gain more popularity, and afterwards, there were demonstrations and protests out there.

Would you please elaborate on how the Peshmerga and Kurdish forces aided Iranian forces during the Iran-Iraq war?

The Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in Iraq participated in the operations Valfajr 1, 2, 3, Fath-el-Mobin 1, 2, 3 and 4 during the Iran-Iraq war. I was once the coordinating director for supplying ammo and logistics from the Kurdish forces during the Fath-el-Mobin operation. At the time, I had offices both in the Iranian village of Kani Zard which is close to the Iraqi border and in the Dulah Kuke which is now in the hands of PJAK. I was in charge of receiving logistic contributions from the I. R. Iran which were delivered in Sardasht, Naqadeh and Kermanshah. Then, Gen. Mohammad Bagher Zolqadr was the chief commander of the Ramazan Headquarter and Mr. Hashemi Rafsanjani, the chief commander of the Khatam-al-Anbia Headquarter. I went to Mr. Rafsanjani’s office a few times and met with his chief of staff, Mr. Ali Agha Mohammadi. Let me tell you a memory of Mr. Agha Mohamadi. I think it was 1994 when he made a trip to the Kurdistan Region and it was neither time nor the season to rain. But soon as he set foot in the Region, it strangely began to rain and that is why people nicknamed him “Ayatollah Matari” (Ayatollah of the Rain).

Why did you decide to take refuge to the Netherlands?

After what happened on August 31, 1996 and parts of the Kurdish lands fell into the hands of the Baath allies, I stayed in the Kurdistan Region and in cooperation with Iran, we managed to win some of them back. Once again I was the coordinating director between Iran and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in Naqadeh in Iran in order to keep military and logistic cooperation going. My mission came to an end once they told us that in spite of how farther we could advance and take back all parts of the Iraqi Kurdistan, the liberation operations had gone enough. When August 31 occurred, I resided in Erbil and announced, “I do not intend to occupy the house of a member of another party in Sulaymaniah just like my own house that has been occupied by another party in Erbil!” I used to live in Paris then, but did not go there, for my family had to be with me. Even when I was in the village, one room was allocated to my child and wife and another was my office.

When those things happened, I told Mr. Talabani that my family and I would leave the Iraqi Kurdistan and he agreed. To do so, I went to the Netherlands and registered myself as a refugee. In fact, whenever a war breaks out, many deviations happen; if that statement weren’t true, then Mr. Barzani would not become allies with Saddam to attack us. After entering the Netherlands, I said, “I would stop armed battles, come to your country, and if you allow me, I would continue my political activities and whenever everything subsided in my own country, I’d go back and proceed there.”

After two weeks, my refuge application was processed in the Netherlands, and even though I wanted to return to Iraq, Mr. Talabani designated me as a member of the Representative Committee of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in Europe which was headed by the current President of Iraq, Dr. Fuad Masum. After that, Mr. Talabani appointed me his special representative in Brussels for National and Kurdish activities until the Washington agreement came to exist between the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and the PDK.

When I moved back to Tehran, Mr. Talabani was there, too and we both stayed at Esteghlal Hotel. He told me, “I have an offer for you. Would you like to be my special representative in Iran?” I said, “As you please,” and ever since I have been Mr. Talabani’s special representative in Iran. After 2003, I officially became the representative of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and as of 2007, I am serving as the representative of the government of the Kurdistan Region in Iran.

In the first part of his interview with AVA Diplomatic, Nazim Omar Dabbagh explained the formation of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in Iraq and in the second part, he told us about his role in announcing the news of Saddam Hussein’s arrest and relations of the Commander of the IRGC’s Quds Force, Gen. Qasem Suleimani with him and the forces of the Kurdistan Region.

AVA Diplomatic’s Exclusive Interview with Nazim Omar Dabbagh,

Representative of the Kurdistan Region in Iran

Interview by Mohammadreza Nazari

 The news of arresting Saddam Hussein was first told to the media by Mr. Talabani in Qasr-e Shirin. Did you know that, too?

The story of giving out the news of Saddam Hussein’s apprehension begins from me! Mr. Talabani was about to have a trip to Iran and that is my responsibility to coordinate his trips so everything goes well. I had checked with Mr. Talabani’s deputy, Mr. Kosrat Rasoul Ali on Mr. Talabani’s trip and current whereabouts, and he replied to me, “Here’s the good news Nazim! Saddam was caught.”

How did Mr. Kosrat Rasoul Ali know about Saddam’s arrest?

His forces played a role in disclosing Saddam Hussein’s hideout and that was how he knew. The news hadn’t been leaked before that.

What was Mr. Kosrat Rasoul Ali’s position back at the time?

He was a member of Mr. Talabani’s political bureau. He told me to publish the news and I said that the honor should be passed to Mr. Talabani. That is why I called the Iranian media and informed them that Mr. Talabani had important news and they had to go to Qasr-e Shirin and ask him. Kosrat Rasoul Ali and I said in a phone call to Mr. Talabani, “Reporters are going to arrive and you should publish the news of Saddam’s arrest.”

So you had made the arrangements for news to break out, right?

Yes.

Were you in Iran when Saddam was executed?

Yes, I was. A Japanese newspaper and even Lomond asked me, “As a Kurd, what punishment do you deem fit for Saddam Hussein?” and I said, “That’s a shame human rights wouldn’t allow it. Otherwise, I have a very good one in mind!”

When they asked me what it was, I replied, “I would keep him alive and put him in a cage once a week in the museums of Iraq for people to see him and that breaks him enough.” But now his execution sculptured a hero out of him for some.

Mr. Barzani and Mr. Talabani agreed that the Kurdistan Region be divided between their proponents. How did such solidarity appear?

First off, I should stress that there were bloody conflicts between the two sides which we are truly sorry for. But when logic rules, there is no war that doesn’t end up in peace. In fact, harmony doesn’t sound tuned while we play one single note and both sides should be open to reason.

When they reached the accord, they sensed they had to divide the power between themselves and none of them could eliminate the other; just like the US where the Republicans and Democrats operate and each take the wheel for a while. But the point is both of them are sure that no harm comes to them once they are not in power. In the Iraqi Kurdistan, these two parties concluded that the best mechanism for the future of Kurds is unity, for if that doesn’t happen, then the problem never goes away.

How did the accord become possible?

It was born as a result of the belief that if we are not unified and do not possess a monolithic force and policy, then we cannot build a prosperous future. That is why Mam Jalal did all he could to make it work and when the Kurdish front was formed, the uprising took place.

The parliamentary election was carried out and the Region Government came to existence. The first cabinet was headed by Dr. Fuad Masum and the first parliamentary Speaker was the late Jowhar Nameq. Mam Jalal’s efforts finally came to fruition, esp. after the Washington agreement and Mrs. Albright’s endeavors. Once Mam Jalal intended to return to Kurdistan through Turkey and had decided to cross the Ibrahim Khalil border for the first time after the civil war which was controlled by the Democratic Party. The consultations and calls within the political bureau had it that no one deemed it a proper move and said that would place the Union’s stances under questions. Of all the members, only Dr. Braham Salih said, “From the Union’s standpoint, you are right. But that is wise move and in the interests of Kurds and all people.” Mam Jalal, too, confirmed he was doing it in the interests of the people, not the Union, made up his mind and went back through Ibrahim Khalil and Dohuk.

When he got to Sulaymaniah, a lot of efforts were made for the purpose of intercession, but went in vain. He talked to Kak Masoud in a night phone call and said, “My driver and I will be your guests for lunch, tomorrow.” Kak Masoud then immediately gathered the political office and stated, “I know Mam Jalal. He will come alone. So do all you can to protect him on his way here.” That happened and the result was the strategic agreement between the Union and the Party.

The political atmosphere that governs the Kurdistan Region seems to becoming bipolar. Is that right?

Yes. Some sort of bipolar environment is there, but that results from the political thoughts, different connections, geopolitical demarcations and border proximities with Iran and Turkey, and as in the words of Mam Jalal, “Geography can never be changed.” After the Chaldoran War between the Safavids and Ottomans, Kurdistan fell into two parts and after the WWI and the demise of the Ottomans, into four parts in which Syria and Iraq were added, too.

Do you believe in the Great Kurdistan?

Why not? Why do Persians pride in having a country named Iran? If you bring all Kurds together, they will make up a population as big as 40 million. I narrated you the history. Why should we not nurture the dream of having the Great Kurdistan? As a matter of fact, my patriotic rights as a Kurd should be reserved within the Constitution of Iraq and I must not be a second-class citizen there. When the President of Iraq is a Kurd, it makes us happy.

Before that, we could not even be a concierge at the Presidential Palace, but now, the Deputy Speaker of the Parliament, Minister of Economy and the President and in the past, the FM, have all been Kurds. That does make us happy. Many people come to me and ask about the Kurdish future.

Why do I support political fights? Because if I focus on human rights, then national and ethnical affairs go under it. Let’s presume someone says they are Kurd; in that case, the rights of speaking Kurdish, conversing in Kurdish in school and college, being a deputy, watchman, professor or a minister will all come under that. That is an article of the human rights. Let me offer the same example I made for the Turkish Ambassador to Iran. I told him, “I was displaced as a Kurd and moved to the Netherlands.

The city I lived in had nearly 300 families living in it. If each of them had one child, then that means 300 students. But let’s settle at 100. Since we did not want our kids to forget the Kurdish language, we went to the municipality and through the individual who was in charge of communications between refugees and government officials, we asked for our children to learn Kurdish. They responded to us, ‘We agree, but have a few conditions. First, the students should not be fewer than 20 and second, find a teacher. The rest is on us.’” So you see the existence of the Great Kurdistan is a challenging case and has its own prerequisites, possible in future. But now, each part of Kurdistan should enjoy its political and legal rights in accordance with the constitution of the country they are located in.

Do you also support the autonomy of Kurds in Syria?

We support the realization of the rights of Kurds everywhere, but that doesn’t mean we opt to whatever for it. They should work out the problem themselves and determine their rights within the constitution of that country.

There are intensive conflicts in the borders between Turkey and the Kurdistan Region. How much has the violation of the ceasefire between Turkey and PKK intensified the fight?

The fights between Turkey and PKK have definitely caused lots of conflicts and tensions. The formation of PKK and other forces is 27 years old which means the Turkish Army has carried out more than 27 attacks against Kurds and PKK. But what was the ending? It was nothing but prolonged displacement, destruction and war. The peace is obviously the answer, but in a war, everybody hurts. Turkey came to peaceful terms with Israel after 6 years; apologized to Russia after all its persistence; and with Kurds, it has to go over this patter, too.

How do you see the fights against the IS? Do the US and the central government back up the Peshmerga forces in the fight?

I have some specific comments on the IS. One day after Mosul was occupied by the IS, I proposed an idea to Iranian newspapers that we should not be happy; some Kurdish officials had even used the term “post-Mosul Iraq”. I also said I do not picture a good future, because whether the IS captures Baghdad or not, it will attack Kurdistan after some time. That is why Daesh is a threat to Kurdistan. First and foremost, we should look for the reasons the IS lives for. Second, we should browse for how the IS survives, which roots in oil and economy. Third, we must comprehend its objectives. Fourth, learn the objectives of those who support it who are after destroying Kurds, forcefully owning Kirkuk’s oil and drive the IS to the borders of Iran.

According to your statements, the IS has to make a cross through Kurdistan to get what it wants, right?

Yes, that is true. I voiced my own belief then that if Iran does not support the Kurdistan Region, then it has to fight with the IS in its own borders. Fortunately enough, the Peshmerga resisted initially and when the threat became imminent, they did not allow the IS to advance any further. But let’s not forget that the foreign helps played a major role in the victory of the resistance. One of the first countries to cooperate with us was Iran and after that, the US, UK, France and others engaged.

What piques my interest is that the governments and countries who used to advocate Iraq against Kurds are backing us up now and fight beside us against those with whom we built today’s Iraq. I believe the IS will not be destroyed, but it weakens. If you take a look at the news archives, nearly 7 months ago, I said that Russia’s involvement in the fights in Syria has a special meaning. As a point of fact, after a long absence, they once again found an excuse to come back to the region and that is why they are powerfully battling with the IS. From one point on, however, Russia’s fight against the IS contradicts the interests of the US and some other countries, and the question is what will happen then? I simply left a question mark at the end of my sentence and after that, many people called me to figure what the answer was.

I responded the future will tell us everything. After Russia came to Syria and started fighting the IS, the US immediately did the same, because when the US won the war in Iraq, it allowed as much use of resources in the country to its allies as it did for itself. The US thought it could do the same in Syria and the region, while things are different now and after the agreement with P5+1, Iran has grown more powerful.

If the US does not partner with the countries who are fighting the IS, then it will face challenges with its allies over making use of the resources in Syria. Although both sides are aiding Kurds, but what I fear is the future and what will come upon the destiny of Kurds in the rows between the two world powers, Russia and the US. Once the IS falls, what will happen to our armed forces? Today, because of the Kurdish heroism and the Peshmerga forces, the US and many other countries support them, and I hope that this will not be confined to the time of war and the Peshmerga, but be prevailed to the Kurdish Nation and the political system of Kurdistan.

Why are you worried about the future of Kurdistan after the war with the IS comes to an end?

You are much younger than I am and I wish for you a long life to see the future of Kurds when peace comes in hand. You should note that in the Kurdistan Region, the IS is a problem; Turkey had problems with Kurds and now the IS maxes out the challenges; and Syria is no different than Turkey.

The IS has caused fears and anxiety outside the Iranian borders, although it has caused some within them. Iran, however, given its strong security control, has pre-emptively managed to prevent such matters. A while ago, I had a meeting with the Japanese Consul and he said two Japanese members are fighting for the IS, and the reason is the extension of social connections. For instance, a Japanese woman marries a Muslim man or vice versa.

Whoever wants to fight in the name of Islam goes to Syrian and Iraq, and if the IS loses under such circumstances, what their fate would be like. Therefore, I fear that the Kurds become a sacrifice in the process of the realization of security and peace of the region, an agreement among countries and the demise of the IS.

Is it probable that the IS makes a highlighted appearance in Europe?

Yes. In fact, if there is no stark evidence, someone who has fought for the IS easily come back home and continue their lives until a new group, like the IS, comes to life. That is why I am saying if the IS falls now, its blood will continue to breed in the future.

Let us distance a bit from the IS and talk about the independence of Kurdistan. In this regard, the former US ambassador to Iraq, James Geoffrey reminded that the US does not advocate the independence process of Kurdistan, because it cannot maintain its security like Israel. How do you see this?

I say this, too. When I said things are not ready, it means there are still some problems. Imam Ali (PBUH) says, “I wish for the one who seeks enmity against me to be wise.” This addresses cleverness and means that a wise enemy gives credit to the person, too. The truth is we, the Kurds, cannot be overlooked; so when we exist, whether as Kurds or Iraqi fellow countrymen, we have some rights, too. But the central government has cut our budget, which is mainly because of the current circumstances.

Even now that the President of Iraq is a Kurd, he has no authority in Baghdad, whereas we participated in constructing the new Iraq and should be partners in running the country; but that position is simply ceremonial. Remember that Saddam’s deputy was a Kurd, too.

Once a committee met with him to lay the middling groundwork to fee a prisoner. He responded that required a notable middleman. They asked him, “Is there possibly anyone more notable than you? You are in charge of everything after Saddam Hussein.” Everything is now the same.

If there is no explosion in Baghdad, you will never hear of the President of Iraq. I believe there is no Kurd how comes to the ballot box and doesn’t say he wants an independent government; even if Iran arrests and expels me, I will say yes to having a Kurdish government. But this should not be published without my comment in which I say unfortunately, things are not prepared yet and that is a far-fetched objective.

How do you view the development of economic ties between Iran and the Kurdistan Region?

Turkey was the first country to import the Region’s oil and natural gas through pipelines. But it should also be mentioned that Iran is the first country and neighbor who permitted the Region’s oil to be exported through its lands and head to the markets.

You said that trade can automatically bring security. Would you explain this more?

Sure. When you seek an active and liberal market, you should definitely take security into consideration. The market must never be shut because of security matters, but it should be boosted, just like Turkey who opted to liberate and activate its market and then sought security. So when there is trade and investment, everyone strives for guaranteeing security and peace. It was believed in the past that politics comes from rifles, but we can say now that politics and trade come out of oil pipelines.

You said that security viewpoints should be reduced toward the borders of Iran and the Kurdistan Region, whereas a group named “Free Eagles of Kurdistan” has fought with Iran’s border police. Some say their bases are in Iraq. Wouldn’t such problems push Iranian officials toward adopting a security approach more?

Two things should be paid attention two. First, the bases of Iranian Kurd forces were and are in the Kurdistan Region.

Since 1986 when we made an agreement with Iran to have military coordination, one of the things under negotiation was what would happen to the Iranian groups in the Union-controlled lands. The truth is they were located there by Saddam and when we captured those regions, they went under our domination.

We agreed with Iran to not expel these people, for Saddam might attack and drive us out. But we also promised that no Iranian group in our jurisdiction would launch an assault or use our soil against Iran. We also agreed that given the friendly ties with have with Iran, they do not attack their garrisons. In general, this means security in the region. As the Director of Customs and Logistics, I personally spoke to the groups there.

One of these organizations was Mujahidin Khalq (Munafiqin), and I even had a verbal fight with its head. Because we possessed enough power then, we gave them 24 hours to leave the area if they do not accept our terms.

They didn’t stay either, and left after destructing their buildings, although many issued statements against me in Paris afterwards. Other groups and even an offshoot of the Organization of Iranian People’s Fedai Guerrillas, accepted the terms, though the latter left the Kurdistan Region after a while. The Democrats and Komalah came to terms, too, and stayed. All these agreements continued until the formation of the Kurdistan Region and after that, we have always followed the rules. So when mutual interests are met, then security comes automatically.

Is it true that some opposition groups use the Kurdistan Region to launch military attacks against Iran?

I cannot say if that is the truth, but it should be noted that our birth is the result of a few minutes of copulation between a father and a mother. So anything happens for a reason, and we must identify where it stems from. Let me tell you a memory. It was 3 or 4 years that in the Jasousan Heights in Sardasht, a military conflict took place between PJAK and Iran. One of the PJAK commanders called me and harshly said, “We don’t accept these terms.

We have military forces and are prepared to attack.” I got pretty angry and told him, “You only had those forces and did attack. Now there are 7 corpses of them left on Iran’s soil. You intend to attack again and leave a few other corpses or give me the chance to conduct a simple greeting and take them back for you?” After that phone call, I called the main liaison between Mr. Talabani and PJAK and told them what had happened. He told me, “Do it yourself, Mr. Dabbagh.” Afterwards, we managed to take the seven corpses and make arrangements for the two sides to meet in the region where the bodies were and take back the areas PJAK had taken before. The areas were returned without any bloodshed and war and border security was restored.

Mr. Joseph Dunford, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, met with Mr. Masoud Barzani and announced the US will assume the monthly salary of part of Peshmerga forces. Has the payment been carried out?

Yes. They are aware we have financial crisis and the central government of Iraq is engaged in war and cannot give us enough budget. The agreement for this payment has been inked, too. The budget the US has considered for this case is nearly $426 million, but we don’t know yet if it is paid directly to the Kurdistan Region or the government of Iraq.

Your relations with some Iranian military officials are interesting. In the Iran-Iraq War, you were in charge of logistic affairs in Iranian fields. How are your relations with them now? Your bond is intimate with Gen. Suleimani. Please tell us a little bit about this.

It was last year when I had an interview with the Javan Newspaper and talked about Mr. Suleimani. I said he is an honest, very brave fighter and whenever he has relations with someone, he is pretty loyal to them. Iran helped the Iraqi Kurds in the past, makes contributions now and I think it will do it in the future, because we have common geography, race and future in the region.

The borders with Kurds in residence are much safer than with any other group. So why shouldn’t Kurds be Iran’s close friend? In my opinion, Iran’s standpoint toward Kurds and ties with them is positive. However, things have gone in a way that Iran’s decisions have reflected in Gen. Suleimani’s daily measures. Yet we well know that not all decisions can be made by Gen. Suleimani; what is legal relates to the Speaker of the Parliament and the President and what requires consultation and directives goes to the Supreme Leader.

Gen. Suleimani is the executive and once the executive’s opinion is in line with the measures, then the results would be much more fruitful. As the individual who exercises Iran’s measures and decisions afield, Gen. Suleimani has sincere belief in this alliance and friendship and works wholeheartedly for them.

How is Gen. Suleimani’s relations with top Kurd officials like Masoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani?

I haven’t seen anything but positive relations, yet. Gen. Suleimani has at times met with these two figures, made phone calls to them and sometimes messages are transferred between them.

Have you ever arranged a meeting between Gen. Suleimani and Mr. Talabani?

When Mr. Talabani was in power, there were times when I used to go to Iraq twice a week for Gen. Suleimani’s sake. There were even time when I used to go to Baghdad in the morning and return at night. It might be interesting for you to know that it has only been two months since Gen. Suleimani’s last meeting with Kurd officials.

Do you attend these meetings?

It depends on the conditions of the session. Things went in a way last time, for example, that I attended the meet.

Does Gen. Suleimani take Kurdistan’s roads to join frontlines against the IS?

Gen. Suleimani has his special ground and aerial paths in Baghdad or the Kurdistan Region.

Has there been an interesting occurrence in any of those sessions you can tell us about?

I will tell you a memory. When Mr. Khatami was President, he met with Mr. Talabani on his trop to Tehran, as the then temporary chief of the Governmental Council of Iraq in Baghdad. At that meeting, Mr. Khatami told Mr. Talabani, “I pray you become the President.” That happened and when Mr. Khatami’s terms came to an end, Mr. Talabani became the President. Later, on his next visit to Iran, Mr. Talabani told Mr. Khatami that his prayer was heard and granted. Mr. Khatami responded, “Yes. If I pray for goodness, it is granted, as God is merciful.” Mr. Talabani asked Mr. Khatami if he could pray for something else, and he replied, “No, one prayer has been granted, and that is enough. I only pray God bless you.”

Do you have memories of Gen. Suleimani, too?

Once we were on our way back to Iran from a mission with Gen. Suleimani. We skipped the protocols and simply went to the transit hall at the international airport of Kermanshah with people normally coming and going. Gen. Suleimani only had a hat and sunglasses and we sat beside them. As our schedule did not tell us when we’d return, Gen. Suleimani went to the flight desk to see if there were vacancies to Tehran. They told us there are two, but we were actually 9, including me.

Mr. Suleimani decided to book one for himself and another for me. But I declined and said the second one should be your chief of staff. He said, “You are my guest and Mr. Talabani’s representative.” But I replied, “What that guy can do for you might be out of my capabilities. So please pardon me.”

Gen. Suleimani took my word and ordered his men to book the next first vacancy for me. Gen. Suleimani and his chief of staff went to board on the flight, but the chief came back after a while. I inquired what had happened and he told me, “There was a mistake. There was only one seat available and Gen. Suleimani flew back to Tehran alone.” He actually went back to Tehran without any claim or request for a personal flight. Of course, I know he has personal flights and airplane and I have accompanied him even on those. But that day, I saw the peak of his humility, as he didn’t say, “Because of my position, security forces should shut the airport closed and prepare VIP protocols for me!” He simply went to the airport and got on first flight.

When did this happen?

Nearly 6 or 7 years ago. But you should understand I cannot disclose any more details, because for someone like Gen. Suleimani, security matters are important and his means or routes of transport cannot be discussed in detail.

I wish more peace and stability for the Kurdistan Region.

I appreciate it and thank you for the interview.

Text of Statement by KRG Council of Ministers:

We strongly condemn the terrorist attacks in Brussels yesterday. We express our deepest condolences to the families of those who lost their lives, and wish the injured complete recovery.

Here in Iraqi Kurdistan, we directly face ISIS terrorism.  We understand well the pain of the victims and their families. We stand in solidarity with the people and Government of Belgium.

Such heinous crimes against innocent people demonstrate once again that terrorism can strike anywhere at anytime without warning. No people or place is invulnerable.

This is a message for all humanity, to the international community and the centers of power and decision-making, that we should not, and cannot, halt the pursuit and intensification of our efforts to combat terrorism.

Once again, we express our solidarity and sympathy with the Belgian people.

Council of Ministers of the Kurdistan Regional Government
23 March 2016

Erbil, Kurdistan Region, Iraq (cabinet.gov.krd) - Kurdistan Regional Government Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani yesterday received Lebanese Minister of Tourism  Michel Pharaon and his accompanying delegation.

The delegation visited the Kurdistan Region to attend the International Tourism Conference held last weekend in Erbil.

Referring to the tourism potential of the Kurdistan Region, Minister Pharaon explained the Lebanese tourism sector and noted those areas where Lebanon could help the Kurdistan Region with expertise.

Prime Minister Barzani expressed hope that Lebanon’s long and successful experience, as well as expertise, will help the Kurdistan Region’s tourism sector.

Mr. Pharaon expressed his gratitude and appreciation to the Kurdistan Regional Government for welcoming the Lebanese community. 

The two sides also discussed the war against ISIS and its impact throughout the Region.